This is the number of my apartment and is numerically the symbol of the energy in my apartment and therefore my life while I live here. It is 5 + 8 = 13, 1 + 3 = 4. It is 4. Four symbolizes structure and strength. Station. The images are for scaring away evil spirits.
The title of this project, It's Easier to Talk About Art While Talking About My Apartment, references a reenactment of >Ben Kinmont's< project, It's Easier to Talk About Art While Washing Dishes, which was preformed by Avalon and myself in the kitchen of his apartment as a way to get our conversation started—a transcript of the reenactment can be found immediatelybelow this introduction. We both decided that staging such a conversation in his apartment was a logical platform from which to consider the ideas and methodologies at play in his work. Avalon has a remarkable ability to formulate this thinking from the everyday milieu of life. So through the course of things we examine his, in the place where he spends most of his time.
As we talked, Avalon lead me through the architecture of his apartment buildinga dormitoryhousing unit on the Portland State University campusits interior, and the many things he’s collected therein. The significance of a seemingly insignificant rock collection, like those many of us might share, offer a window into a type of thinking that doesn’t necessarily restrict "Art" (using the word here sounds almost silly) to the confines of formalized institution by means of an acute understanding of how such objects are imbued with meaning by those human individuals who might choose to posses them—for one reason or another. A stack of old records or a dozen paintings acquired at a thrift store prove to further reinforce this point. The physical space such items might occupy—including the living beings that might be found there as well—are of importance, such as how the door is positionedto the wall which may divide it from the rest of the room. In fact, the very photographs and text, which constitutethe whole of this monograph, are significant in their re-presentation.
“Everything has an artfulness to it. There is nothing uncreative in the Universe."
AV: So, what do you think art is?
JZ: That's a good question. Um... Well... I used to, and I think I still do, follow the rather simplistic belief that anything can be art. I think I find anything that is deemed "art" art--right? By entering something into the discussion of art, or the logic of art, makes it art regardless of the intent.
AV: Right. And that begs the question, can you have an extradition art definition... where you go out and you define something that's art that seems totally outlandish? Like with terrorists, the thing that that they do... extraordinary rendition? I don't know if you can call people that aren't artists "artists." I don't know if they like it. It's self nomination, that's the thing.
JZ: Yeah, that's where things get a little tricky. When you put it that way I don't know that you can call anyone an artist. You can make what they do art, but in a way then you become the author.
AK: That's it. You become the artist at that point. I see what you mean.
JZ: I'm not sure I ran that thought through entirely... to it's logical conclusion.
AK: I guess it should be an open question in some ways.
JZ: But, it still surprises me when you're giving a talk, or attending a talk, and something that you've taken for granted as a piece of art gets the question from the audience, "What makes that art?" Well the fact that we're talking about it as art makes it art--right? It seems like a non-issue to me.
AK: Yeah, that's a good point. I agree.
I was thinking today... just totally overstepping the conversation, or not overstepping it, but just saying that there is no separation... you can analyze phenomenon in such a way--this is the relativism of value. By this given definition anything else is art. Art in itself becomes just a form of human being, or being, in general. You could say consciousness is art, or art is consciousness, that art is being, but then you have to define being... a rock as being a rock. Everything has an artfulness to it. There is nothing uncreative in the universe.




JZ: Are these the rocks we're looking at?
AK: These are the edifice of sentiments, really. That is what each becomes.
JZ: They mask a memory or a particular occasion?
AK: Yeah, in a way.
The funny thing about rocks is they are very boring until you fall in love with one.
JZ: I understand. I have a rock collection at home. Mine are mostly pretty boring rocks. Although, some of these are really gorgeous.
AK: There are some pretty interesting ones. This one is quartz, which you can kinda see through. This is a shell that still has some of its pearlstuff on it. When they're wet they're even crazier.
JZ: Yeah, when you bring a stone home from the beach it is always much less interesting by the time it dries off.
AK: It's funny that I would say sentiments earlier. These are sentimental in a way--I found them on the beach and brought them back and they hold memories for me--but what I meant by sentiment was just any sentiment.
JZ: Just any particular idea?
AK: Yeah, just any sentiment... Well, each one's particular. When you look at a rock I think that's what you fall in love with. You're constantly looking at something that is only what it is. I think it's our ability to experience the object, ultimately, that becomes our relationship with the object. Right? So, that's what is interesting about rock collections... we project the interest.
JZ: Yes. Right.
AK: Yeah. So the rock collection became really friendly--made me feel at home here.
"The funny thing about rocks is they are very boring until you fall in love with one."
The left side represents opportunity. The entire wall, grounded mostly on the right, represents life.


AV: I wanted to point out this. The main feature I wanted to talk about is this.
JZ: The wall? The one separating the two...
AV: Yeah, this wall. This wall, over the time I've lived here, has become very interesting to me. This is a common experience for me to stare right there as I'm falling asleep, as I'm waking up...
JZ: You sleep here?
Yeah, this is what I see. I would say it's kind of like my life and then the activity I have in my life, which right now is this art program. And, so that's the art program and the entire wall is my life grounded mostly on this side. Since that side is the door that's opportunity.
This has been a relatively comfortable place to live.
Let me show you a few other things...
This is a honey jar with my lucky number on it. It is the number of Temperance in the Tarot. It saves my butt on a daily basis because I'm a triple fire sign.


AV: This is kind of like the presence of my family and the projects I want to do with them. In the shape of two maybe three throw rungs from my grandparent's apartment. My father packed up like this...
JZ: I love it!
AV: Yeah, he packed it up in Florida and sent it to me on my request because they were getting rid of them and I said I want those. And, I asked him to take pictures of were they were in the apartment so I have a record. There's no reason for me to unwrap them yet.
JZ: But you have them here...
AK: Yes, this is like the potential to start working with my family, which is what I'd like to do. I don't know how it's going to happen, but this is physically a symbolic presence.
" I don't know how it's going to happen, but this is physically a symbolic presence. "
AK: Okay, so here's another one. This is like my situation... but I feel like this is me as the son of my own life. I am that person. I mean, that isn't a person, but I am that. I am that. It's what it is and there is no way around it. We would all be this... I think if you had this painting, in some way, it would be you too. Because I found the painting and it's been in my life it's ingrained in my head and I totally relate to this object. [points to pile object in painting]
JZ: Why wouldn't you have related to that, though. [points to tree object in painting]
AK: Isn't that strange. That's a really good question.
JZ: They're both in stark contrast to the rest of the picture.
AK: Yeah, I think you just pointed out a duality here that I've been trying to ignore. That's great! I think you're absolutely right, and I'd like for you to write about that... because this is something that I don't understand. So, this is what I see about myself and this is what I don't understand. We have them both.
JZ: You've been looking at this painting since you were a child?
AK: No, no, I got this about four years ago.
JZ: About four years ago. Oh, okay.
AK: A thrift store painting by Ivy.
JZ: I saw you had a whole bunch of them out there.
AK: Yeah, you can look at those too.
These are opportunities for me to explore the aesthetic experience without limitation, without the normal limitations of what people consider to be a worthwhile aesthetic experience. And, once I started looking at these paintings differently--I started looking at them differently because of an artist who visited PSU, Allan McCollum, who, when he heard that I was painting over these canvases, said "Why would you paint over those beautiful pictures"--I realized they all had so much meaning in them. I began to take it upon myself to examine each one.
Now, if you look at this one from a normal perspective you don't notice until you get into particulars. This is a great example. Look at these... this whole force over here of those rock structures is totally this weird world.
JZ: Yeah.
AK: This down here is graceful. If you actually look at this church--I stared at this church for periods of time on and off--I found that this church is a very frightening thing in this painting. I don't think that this church is a happy church.
JZ: The way it's situated back there... awkwardly shaped, almost bulging, yeah...
AK: I would almost say that this church is accusing the viewer. If you look at the windows as eyes...
JZ: They do read as eyes.
AK: It's like an owl.
JZ: Yeah.
AK: They're just one after the other. This is really beautiful. If you can get in here really close this is like a Malevich. A figure from his early period. And without having to identify this with any other artists, it's almost like this painter has taken this to the limits of what we can do with cliche. Isn't that weird.
JZ: Uh huh. Yeah.
AK: It seems like a joke, but it's, basically... well, it's about how much you are willing to invest in a painting. If you start investing your time in these you kinda go on a whole different journey.
This is an example. This is a freaky flower-thing... if you're not looking through it, you're not looking into it, the result is a totally abstract work. It's a chaos that really takes you on a roller-coaster ride when you just let it exist.
JZ: Yeah.
AK: It's a half formed flower arrangement. Half formed in rendering.














"...it appears to me that if we would conclude that the universe was infinite it would force us to confront the realm of infinity... that we're not separate from infinity. In this biosphere we are totally integrated into this biosphere's place in infinity"
AK: Actually, it was this carpet and two other Oriental rugs that I grew up playing on. And if you look, these do derive from physical things and you find out that the art of persian rungs and and middle-eastern rugs is that these represent gardens and all sorts of stories. They've been abstracted to the point that some people don't recognize what they are any more, but for me they are like, quite quickly, robots and transformers, or more haunting, characters that could infinitely haunt you--if you look at them as symmetrical face structures.
Also, this is a graphical realm. I became interested in two dimensional graphics. I was a Fred Meyer's employee and I would pull packaging to the front. I would do that for eight hours, back and forth across the store. I would just stare at the packaging. There's a little bit of graphics in here...
Oh, but before we do that...
Let's call this "The Infinite Platform: Void Noise." That's going to be my name for this, because all it takes is projection. Seeing more than what's there is a survival mechanism. Someone might say "oh, that's just drugs..." No, it's not just drugs. We've always been doing that. It's a very childish thing to do... to see things. If we could get a microscopic view look, we're just looking at the fabric around us. This is the stuff we're always walking on. There's enough life-force under all of it that any potential thing in the universe could happen. The more we learn about the universe the more potential there is that this becomes the rule.
That's the thing I don't like about scientists right now... that it's a common view that the universe is definite. I don't know that there is any proof that anyone has forwarded that the universe is definite. I think that the universe is infinite.
JZ: It does seem like an absurd notion that you could define something like the universe. We can argue that it's human nature to want to confine things in some sense.
AK: It's useful to confine it, to understand it.
Maybe that's just my own insecurity. Who knows? But it appears to me that if we would conclude that the universe was infinite it would force us to confront the realm of infinity... that we're not separate from infinity. In this biosphere we are totally integrated into this biosphere's place in infinity.
JZ: Yeah, well, there's no conclusive proof either way...?
AK: Maybe it's just my fear of death. It's probably just that I'm afraid of death like anyone else.
"We can call this 'The Ideal Art Collective'"

AK: I've set up an electronic music studio as part of a collaborative project in Ryan and Anna's studio space.
JZ: So you've moved a lot of equipment out.
AK: Yeah...
We can call this "The Ideal Art Collective," because each voice has a determined function and each sequence grouped together.
JZ: Uh huh.
AK: You have a bass drum, snare drum, tom, symbol, and high hat, and there's one volume for all of them. They're all in one, together, with the sequencer. Each can play its part.
JZ: In one little box.
AK: But, it's only 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 voices. That's why it's so nice.
JZ: So this is all analog, but do you do any work on a laptop?
AK: Yeah, that's analog, this is analog, and these are all digital samples. These three are drum machines. This one, obviously a synth. This is a synth and midi controller. So, this is how I preform my live performances. This is a huge lexicon of significance. This is like a huge console of significance, because, if you look at a synthesizer, you have basic stuff like an oscillator, and modulations like a filter, the mixer, you can change pitches, you can have the oscillators effect each-other. Then you get down to the way you can patch these things together. You have the influencing oscillators, the low-frequency oscillators. And then, you get envelopes for both filter and amplitude. So there are many parameters. You could design a sound. You could find the sound and say I want it to have this quality and you can search and search and search and discover sounds. If there was a hobby, my hobby would be musical synthesis, tonal synthesis.
Nice Expectations
For Zac Von Joo,
From Avalon Kalin, 2008.
Chapter I
My father’s family name being Zarrac, and my Christian name Jack, my infant tongue could make of both names nothing longer or more explicit than Zac. So, I called myself Zac, and came to be called Zac.
I give Zarrac as my father’s family name, on the authority of his tombstone and my sister,—Mrs. Joe Gargery, who married the blacksmith. As I never saw my father or my mother, and never saw any likeness of either of them (for their days were long before the days of photographs), my first fancies regarding what they were like were unreasonably derived from their tombstones. The shape of the letters on my father’s, gave me an odd idea that he was a square, stout, dark man, with curly black hair. From the character and turn of the inscription, “Also Georgiana Wife of the Above,” I drew a childish conclusion that my mother was freckled and sickly. To five little stone lozenges, each about a foot and a half long, which were arranged in a neat row beside their grave, and were sacred to the memory of five little brothers of mine,—who gave up trying to get a living, exceedingly early in that universal struggle,—I am indebted for a belief I religiously entertained that they had all been born on their backs with their hands in their trousers-pockets, and had never taken them out in this state of existence.
Ours was the marsh country, down by the river, within, as the river wound, twenty miles of the sea. My first most vivid and broad impression of the identity of things seems to me to have been gained on a memorable raw afternoon towards evening. At such a time I found out for certain that this bleak place overgrown with nettles was the churchyard; and that Philip Zarrac, late of this parish, and also Georgiana wife of the above, were dead and buried; and that Alexander, Bartholomew, Abraham, Tobias, and Roger, infant children of the aforesaid, were also dead and buried; and that the dark flat wilderness beyond the churchyard, intersected with dikes and mounds and gates, with scattered cattle feeding on it, was the marshes; and that the low leaden line beyond was the river; and that the distant savage lair from which the wind was rushing was the sea; and that the small bundle of shivers growing afraid of it all and beginning to cry, was Zac.
“Hold your noise!” cried a terrible voice, as a man started up from among the graves at the side of the church porch. “Keep still, you little devil, or I’ll cut your throat!”
A fearful man, all in coarse gray, with a great iron on his leg. A man with no hat, and with broken shoes, and with an old rag tied round his head. A man who had been soaked in water, and smothered in mud, and lamed by stones, and cut by flints, and stung by nettles, and torn by briars; who limped, and shivered, and glared, and growled; and whose teeth chattered in his head as he seized me by the chin.
“Oh! Don’t cut my throat, sir,” I pleaded in terror. “Pray don’t do it, sir.”
“Tell us your name!” said the man. “Quick!”
“Zac, sir.”
“Once more,” said the man, staring at me. “Give it mouth!”
“Zac. Zac, sir.”
“Show us where you live,” said the man. “Pint out the place!”
I pointed to where our village lay, on the flat in-shore among the alder-trees and pollards, a mile or more from the church.
The man, after looking at me for a moment, turned me upside down, and emptied my pockets. There was nothing in them but a piece of bread. When the church came to itself,—for he was so sudden and strong that he made it go head over heels before me, and I saw the steeple under my feet,—when the church came to itself, I say, I was seated on a high tombstone, trembling while he ate the bread ravenously.
“You young dog,” said the man, licking his lips, “what fat cheeks you ha’ got.”
I believe they were fat, though I was at that time undersized for my years, and not strong.
“Darn me if I couldn’t eat em,” said the man, with a threatening shake of his head, “and if I han’t half a mind to’t!”
I earnestly expressed my hope that he wouldn’t, and held tighter to the tombstone on which he had put me; partly, to keep myself upon it; partly, to keep myself from crying.
“Now lookee here!” said the man. “Where’s your mother?”
“There, sir!” said I.
He started, made a short run, and stopped and looked over his shoulder.
“There, sir!” I timidly explained. “Also Georgiana. That’s my mother.”
“Oh!” said he, coming back. “And is that your father alonger your mother?”
“Yes, sir,” said I; “him too; late of this parish.”
“Ha!” he muttered then, considering. “Who d’ye live with,—supposin’ you’re kindly let to live, which I han’t made up my mind about?”
“My sister, sir,—Mrs. Joe Gargery,—wife of Joe Gargery, the blacksmith, sir.”
“Blacksmith, eh?” said he. And looked down at his leg.
After darkly looking at his leg and me several times, he came closer to my tombstone, took me by both arms, and tilted me back as far as he could hold me; so that his eyes looked most powerfully down into mine, and mine looked most helplessly up into his.
“Now lookee here,” he said, “the question being whether you’re to be let to live. You know what a file is?”
“Yes, sir.”
“And you know what wittles is?”
“Yes, sir.”
After each question he tilted me over a little more, so as to give me a greater sense of helplessness and danger.
“You get me a file.” He tilted me again. “And you get me wittles.” He tilted me again. “You bring ‘em both to me.” He tilted me again. “Or I’ll have your heart and liver out.” He tilted me again.
I was dreadfully frightened, and so giddy that I clung to him with both hands, and said, “If you would kindly please to let me keep upright, sir, perhaps I shouldn’t be sick, and perhaps I could attend more.”
He gave me a most tremendous dip and roll, so that the church jumped over its own weathercock. Then, he held me by the arms, in an upright position on the top of the stone, and went on in these fearful terms:—
“You bring me, to-morrow morning early, that file and them wittles. You bring the lot to me, at that old Battery over yonder. You do it, and you never dare to say a word or dare to make a sign concerning your having seen such a person as me, or any person sumever, and you shall be let to live. You fail, or you go from my words in any partickler, no matter how small it is, and your heart and your liver shall be tore out, roasted, and ate. Now, I ain’t alone, as you may think I am. There’s a young man hid with me, in comparison with which young man I am a Angel. That young man hears the words I speak. That young man has a secret way pecooliar to himself, of getting at a boy, and at his heart, and at his liver. It is in wain for a boy to attempt to hide himself from that young man. A boy may lock his door, may be warm in bed, may tuck himself up, may draw the clothes over his head, may think himself comfortable and safe, but that young man will softly creep and creep his way to him and tear him open. I am a keeping that young man from harming of you at the present moment, with great difficulty. I find it wery hard to hold that young man off of your inside. Now, what do you say?”
I said that I would get him the file, and I would get him what broken bits of food I could, and I would come to him at the Battery, early in the morning.
“Say Lord strike you dead if you don’t!” said the man.
I said so, and he took me down.
“Now,” he pursued, “you remember what you’ve undertook, and you remember that young man, and you get home!”
“Goo-good night, sir,” I faltered.
“Much of that!” said he, glancing about him over the cold wet flat. “I wish I was a frog. Or a eel!”
At the same time, he hugged his shuddering body in both his arms,—clasping himself, as if to hold himself together,—and limped towards the low church wall. As I saw him go, picking his way among the nettles, and among the brambles that bound the green mounds, he looked in my young eyes as if he were eluding the hands of the dead people, stretching up cautiously out of their graves, to get a twist upon his ankle and pull him in.
When he came to the low church wall, he got over it, like a man whose legs were numbed and stiff, and then turned round to look for me. When I saw him turning, I set my face towards home, and made the best use of my legs. But presently I looked over my shoulder, and saw him going on again towards the river, still hugging himself in both arms, and picking his way with his sore feet among the great stones dropped into the marshes here and there, for stepping-places when the rains were heavy or the tide was in.
The marshes were just a long black horizontal line then, as I stopped to look after him; and the river was just another horizontal line, not nearly so broad nor yet so black; and the sky was just a row of long angry red lines and dense black lines intermixed. On the edge of the river I could faintly make out the only two black things in all the prospect that seemed to be standing upright; one of these was the beacon by which the sailors steered,—like an unhooped cask upon a pole,—an ugly thing when you were near it; the other, a gibbet, with some chains hanging to it which had once held a pirate. The man was limping on towards this latter, as if he were the pirate come to life, and come down, and going back to hook himself up again. It gave me a terrible turn when I thought so; and as I saw the cattle lifting their heads to gaze after him, I wondered whether they thought so too. I looked all round for the horrible young man, and could see no signs of him. But now I was frightened again, and ran home without stopping.
I can't remember what this symbolizes.
Unfinished thoughts. I have closets full of stuff like this.
This is the crap that I and we have to deal with.
This is something in my bathroom. Keep your sense of humor. But watch out for maniacs.
These are the shrines to my spiritual teachers Guru Dev and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. They continue to teach me life integration from the pure energy realm.